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The State of The Server?

Discussion in 'Ask the Staff' started by Dextile, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Dextile

    Dextile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Right now on the server I feel the rules are primarily focused on a low-age demographic. This leads to issues for people outside of this group, nor is it not good for the server.

    I feel as if I have to talk certain ways to not get punished. It feels unnatural and fake to me. Today a player was perma-banned for quoting a meme containing the word "N****". A permaban for this? Not a warning, or a tempmute? Or at an extreme even a mute or tempban? I feel issues should be resolved by staff talking to players instead of heading to disciplinary action. How could a "Hey, our rules don't allow that, please refrain from using it in public chat. any questions?" not work in this situation? If they are a reasonable person they will understand. If they are permabanned, it is likely they will never return. If i was banned on a new-to-me server, I would go and find a new one, ALL new servers are the same. You need the player to experience our server, you need to make them care about it, to WANT to play on it and stay, a new player will almost never return after being permabanned. I want to help the server grow back to what it was at its prime, it is not hard.

    The rules should be changed to represent the average player on the server. This, to me, appears to be teenagers and older. There people curse, name call, cause drama, and what's better than an obscene joke? Please. Market the server towards those who make sense to. Young people don't play the same as others, they come and go. I feel you should work on the 14+ demographic, they are more likely to stay on the server, invite friends/coworkers onto it, build better things, play smarter, better contribute to chat. Jflory, Justin. My friend I have been on this server for over 3 years. You are 19 or 20 I believe, why would you not want to have the server reflect what you feel and like, instead of that of a demographic not really here. Why would you not want to be able to talk on your server as if you would to your buddies?

    I believe the server would be greatly improved by editing rules/ being more lax on (unimportant) rules; so it is more adjusted for those who play. When I first joined, the server was great! People would talk freely in chat, have fun, swear, even say mean things, but that is what our world is, we should not censor it here in the server we should celebrate it and act how we do normally. People who have to worry about what they say (at risk of mute, or more likely, ban) are not as happy as they should be.

    Look at 2 countries for example, the USSR and the US. Who's citizens are happier? The one where they have to filter/censor them selves in public or speak freely? Look, i'm not trying to compare the server to the USSR is respect to how it is run, just the fact that in both cases the people are burdened by suppressing what they want to say. Run this place in the respect,

    Respect the players first. No one is superior or inferior here, we are all people with their own lives playing the same game. Focus less on punishing people for being who they are, saying weird and wacky stuff, yelling once in awhile, getting overexcited. Just let it flow, i miss seeing real emotions here. The player I spoke of up there, permabanned for saying "N****". It was a quote from a meme, many people see these, use these words, enjoy the joke. He did no different than I would to a group of friends, or to the server if i could. I enjoy sharing and joking around like this.

    Sorry for the sloppy, strung out post, but I stand by everything I said 100%. I felt the need to tell you, not just as a player-of-server to owner-of-server, but as a person to person. I want to help, and I feel these changes could do great change for the server, making it much more enjoyable and holding more players.

    I encourage anyone to comment on this or express their opinion, staff and players, my friends. Let's work together and try to help the server we all know and love. It is no secret the server has declined in popularity and fun. I will do my best to reply to anyone who wishes to discuss this with me.

    Sincerely, Dextile.
     
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  2. InfiniteCorners

    InfiniteCorners Commander of Blocks Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Life is filled with compromises and learning to tailor your behavior to what is considered appropriate is a large part of growing up. While it is true that many people are profane or vulgar when surrounded by close friends with similar mentalities you will find that such behavior is best suited to private. Whether you find yourself in a school, court house, place of employment or really any other place where you will find that different people in different places expect different things from you. If you don't behave as expected in these places then you are punished with detention, imprisonment, loss of your job etc- that's just the nature of crime and punishment and something to get used to because it is everywhere and will not be going away any time soon.
    I think tailoring behavioral guidelines around a demographic that is notoriously well known for poor impulse control and making bad decisions would be extremely annoying to us older players who don't really think being offensive just because you can is cool or interesting. Personally I wouldn't waste my time on a server that filled my chat endlessly with profanity, racism and vulgarity: In fact I already have a couple such servers I don't play. When I see such nonsense allowed and even encouraged in chat I can draw no other conclusion than the server is for and operated by children who are experiencing their first tastes of freedom. I wouldn't spend my time or money on that server and that is coming from someone who spends quite a bit of time and money on this game.
    I would be interested to see what you believe the rules should be changed to. Exactly how would your alter the rules and why you think it would be better, beyond just being what you personally want. From my viewpoint, if there is an issue, it wouldn't be that you have an issue with the rules as much as you do the implementation of them.

    Thoughts on the Discipline Policy for staff from a former Administrator:
    The Discipline Policy was created to provide a base framework for how to deal with players breaking the rules. It is an excellent guideline for newer staff members who are not used to administering punishment. Now many things that happen or are said can be subjective when scrutinized by a staff member and whether or not the player agrees that a rule has been broken does not change the determination made by staff. Because of this it is important that staff take the time to take what they have seen or heard and make sure they are viewing it in context and not just making a knee-jerk decision. I would also like to note that, as I remember it: The Discipline Policy outlines the harshest possible punishments. What I mean is when we made it the intent was to outline that border where punishment becomes cruel and unusual. Racism is an immediate permanent ban, first offense; no warnings. Now this doesn't mean you HAVE TO permanently ban someone for saying something racist: Only that it is the most extreme punishment you are allowed to take as staff. The point of punishment is to punctuate the fact someone has done something wrong and hopefully get them to fall in line (or just not be here). When a player joins and starts spouting off about the glory of Hitler and killing all the *insert racial slur here* an immediate permanent ban is obviously warranted for such trolls. When a player is talking to a friend and drops a "Stop being such a *slur here*" you, as staff members, have the ability to CHOOSE leniency. If you warn a player and they apologize and change their behavior then there really isn't any need for further punishment. I understand the grind of being a staff member and the impulse to instantly shut down any violation that popped up: it's easy to grow overly harsh after dealing with intentional rule-breaking for week after month after year. Please remember, this is a game and while rules are important a game needs players to exist. Throw people a warning from time to time and I think you'll find a lot of this is ignorance, not intentional malignancy.
    Players: Remember, whether or not a staff member decides to show you leniency for something it dependent upon a whim and should never be taken for granted. Always assume a rule violated will result in the worst possible punishment.
     
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  3. jflory7

    jflory7 A Purple Jukebox Staff Member Founder Sysadmin

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    I'll try to respond to the key points here, but I apologize if anything feels more succinct than it normally does. It's 3am and I'm alone in a cold bus station.

    Ideally, this is not what we are trying to do on the server. Over the years, myself, former staff, and current staff have always tried to keep the server an open place for discussion. One of my favorite types of discussions are some of the late night philosophical / political discussions with some members of the server. These are things highly built off opinion and personal belief! However, these conversations are done respectfully and in mind that others who aren't participating may have other beliefs and opinions. Because of this, our language is more reserved, even if it feels a little unnatural or if we want to express ourselves more bluntly. The server is like a public forum where different people from around the world come together for survival, PvP, raiding, teaming, or maybe all of the above. You shouldn't have to feel like you are being "fake", but if the definition of fake implies disrespect, then this is the root of the issue.

    @InfiniteCorners summarized all of the key points I would have liked to have made, and I couldn't have put it better. Perhaps some context was missed, but racial slurs are and always have been subject to the highest and most severe punishments in the discipline policy. This has not changed in the 4.5 years the server has been running, nor will this change now. If we want to discuss more about what that means, I'd be okay to focus on this.

    I know you mean well, but the way you're presenting this right now, it seems like you're implying that allowing immature and obscene language is how we restore the server to its prime? I'm not sure if this is the line you are trying to draw, but this is how it's looking to me.

    This is a point I strongly believe in and will refute. The server has ALWAYS been governed by rules that reflect how I believe a community should be managed. I understand you feel like the rules and server atmosphere are being targeted towards a younger atmosphere, but I also counter your point that your definition of what a 14+ year old community looks like is flawed. There are people in our community now that I know of that would find this behavior obscene, distracting, and reflective of a poorly managed server. I think your definition of 14+ audience is too narrow, and might focus more closely on people similar to yourself. Which is understandable, but you have to see things through another lens too. I've been fortunate enough to meet and know great players and staff over the past 4.5 years of CCMC's history, and the vision you have contradicts the things that many of these people have placed value into the server community for. They would probably disagree few things being better than an obscene joke. I've always tried to build an inclusive community for people of all ages, genders, backgrounds, disabilities, and other considerations. This includes you as much as it does the other people I've seen and see a part of this community today. Maybe I am misunderstanding your vision, but I'd like to challenge you to be more specific yet considerate with your vision, to understand more exactly what you feel needs to be changed and how it will affect others who still enjoy raiding, griefing, building, survival, and other server activities, but have a different view of what the community should look like.

    And on the contrary, the server has always been run the way I'd talk to my buddies or friends even offline.

    As far as the rules for public chat behavior, little has changed in moderation or discipline guidelines since at least late 2013. If the case you're making is that increased moderation and particularness in rules has led to decreased server activity, I think it's a weak case without much evidence. On the contrary, I'd argue that part of it is that I went to college and lost a lot of time I used to have to devote to CCMC.

    We have always respected the players because they are the foundation of what makes this community what it is. But respect is a two-way street. Where it is earned, it is given. Publicly refuting bans or staff decisions in public chat seems directly contradictory to this. In all seriousness, who has ever thought that arguing about it in-game will reverse a change? And this isn't directly specifically at anyone - I do appreciate you starting this thread and taking this approach to have a fair and even discussion about the topic. This is what I would expect more than arguing with staff in public chat.

    To further this, comments are welcome, but I'd like to avoid opinions as much as proposed solutions about how to solve any problems people feel are accurately voiced in this thread.
     
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  4. Dextile

    Dextile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Sorry I wasn't very clear, my bad. But neither would I, I didn't mean it like that. I don't want to encourage a high amount of profanity at all, just levy all punishments for it. And as it goes for racism, no I don't want to see racism here at all. That should remain dealt only with a ban. But today "N****" is not used in a racist way by most people, mostly just by trolls (who should be banned). And if it ever is used in a racist way, ban. If it isn't used in a racist way, what does it hurt? And finally, no. I am not asking for "more vulgarity" in chat, who talks like that? I just believe that people should not be punished for it. There are still rules on excessive language and I believe they should still be enforced. But not if it slips out in conversation or said in a joke or story.
    ==================================

    Here is what I have planned right now. The following rule (below) can be changed in the ways I describe under.
    1. No excessive profanity or obscenity.
      • Any type of excessive profanity or obscenity is not appropriate for chat. Anything sexually, racially or ethnically inappropriate is not suitable for chat and will result in instant punishment. Keep in mind that while we do allow cursing, please do not abuse this privilege – if staff believes your profanity is disrupting the harmony of the server, we will reserve the right to mute you without warning.
      • This also includes obscene or inappropriate skins (at a staff member's own discretion).
    TURNED INTO:
    1. No excessive profanity or obscenity. No racism
    • If it is decided your profanity is greatly disrupting the harmony of the server, you may be punished
    • L> This includes trolls and spammer. Or excessive language
    • No racism.
    • This also includes obscene or inappropriate skins (at a staff member's own discretion)
    If someone does break this rule: The staff should ask them to stop. Then they explain why it is against the rules, and advise them to read the rules. If they are clearly not someone interested in playing on the server (troll, spammer) and they agree to to follow the rules for now on, then it is OKAY. If they continue doing things so bad then YES, punishments are in order. Perhaps a mute if they are someone who plays on the server, and a ban if it's clear they're just here to troll.

    If this rule is broken by racism, they should be banned. But unless it is apparent racism (you know it when you see it), it should be quickly investigated. If it simply just sound racist/ turns out it was not racist, they are not breaking a rule. A swift ban can deter a new play from ever trying to join again, so please ensure it is infact racist before banning. This server is made up of people from different cultures mostly around North America and some from other countries. People talk different, why tailer the server to a particular group???

    As for skins, yes this remains a great rule. It is good to block some inappropriate skins not wanted by anyone.

    As for why I believe this will be better

    I think this is better because as long as a player is NOT using words maliciously, excessively, it is better. In MOST cases it is harmless talk/jokes/stories. I believe the server is full of responsible people who do not abuse this, and if it is abused, then of course punish them. But I think an approach of working it out with them is much nicer, and better.

    A continued no-exceptions for racism is very important. But don't ban someone just because they say"N****", IF you KNOW they are not a racist. IF You KNOW it was not put in a racist way. IF you KNOW it is not used to hurt anyone. Then I don't believe it should be a ban. Following this of course, if it is overused it does get annoying. And punishable. If they are asked to stop by staff, and don't stop, then yes punish them.

    If people can be allowed to talk how they want and not be judged/banned for it, I feel it would help the community. Make people feel more at ease, and not having to change how they behave/act to a pretty PG tone. I am not 6, I am 19, why would I want to feel like I am in preschool, with staff watching over me, knowing something I say normally can get me banned. I am not saying I want to see people swearing all the time, I just don't want someone to be punished for it.

    ============================

    Staff should be trained/guided/showed how to administer punishment/rehabilitation. They should not have to just rely on set rule that can be interpreted different ways.

    =======================

    In the case of the ban today I believe this justice was not served. It was clear as day what the player said was not racist, excessive, or obscene.

    ============

    Of course, as always this is important.

    ================

    now THIS is more what I am getting at. I don't think someone should be banned for this. They should not have to worry they will be banned for talking how they do. As long as it is not terrible. Of course if they continue doing it, and are told to stop after the first time, action is required. Same as if it doesnt fit with the current tone of the chat. If it goes with the context of chat then it can be acceptable. If it is out of context, no one likes it, excessive (2+ times), or just plain bad then yes action is required.

    =================

    Exactly, so why limit what our players can do by so much? I am sure this can be off putting for some people.
     
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  5. Wonckay

    Wonckay Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    I think there's a slight disconnect in this discussion, because there's really two topics being argued;

    1) Whether this kind of behavior is appropriate?
    I don't think the "target demographic" argument makes sense if you look at it clearly. The community here is of quite a range of ages and not only do I believe that aspect shouldn't be sacrificed for a certain group, I don't see why it has to. Using racially charged slang is not some inherent characteristic of nor is it restricted to the 14+ age range. It's a part of the demographic "People who are comfortable with racially charged slang", and to say it should be allowed isn't an acquiescence to "14+ players", it's an acquiescence to "Players who are comfortable with racially charged slang". The argument for making more room for them in our community is unlikely something that would be popular, and the idea that isn't a compromise necessary to grow the server doesn't have any proof.

    2) Whether this kind of punishment/disciplinary approach is appropriate?
    Still, I think the punishment was unnecessarily harsh, and arbitrary staff actions can certainly cripple a server - I played on a server for over two years that was eventually destroyed by incompetent staff decisions. The golden word in this discussion is context. I disagree with the idea that the worst punishment is always acceptable and "leniency is a privilege". Unless your legal code is immensely prolific and deals with every contingency, an entirely by-the-book system is a bad idea. To give an example, the "Speaking English" rule. My brother was on the server online once, late at night with a single other person. The other player said a phrase in Spanish, and my brother replied with a couple of words in Spanish. A staff member then un-/vanished and muted them both. Context is important.

    Dextile's point about letting emotion flow naturally makes sense to me. I'm not saying that there's some kinds of discussion that we don't want, but rather that we should have an ideal of discussion that we should penalize other kinds for not being. If someone dies and types something in all caps, or says HELLO!, two staff members don't need to say "Watch the caps." The point of the rule is to avoid spam and drama, and one or two all-cap messages aren't making anyone's chat unreadable. On a similar line of thinking, I've personally been kicked (although) for using words like "Bonjour" and "Adieu" once in a while. Yes, that might break the letter of the English-only rule, but I don't think it breaks the spirit. Again, Context is important.

    The player in this case was referencing a meme with a racial slur. Does the fact that it was "a joke" make it acceptable? No. But it does make it not racism.

    Solutions?

    To be honest, that any first-time, not necessarily intentional offense should be a permaban seems unreasonable. If you want solutions, I think some guidelines should be set out: Maybe first-time, non-necessarily-intentional offenses should be met with a warning or a kick at worst. Maybe there should be a cut-off for how long different levels of staff are allowed to ban or mute. Maybe cases should be treated differently with consideration of who the message was directed to.
     
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  6. Dextile

    Dextile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Exactly. So why should someone have to chance a ban when they speak. I am not trying to encourage a "swearing" community, just one where you wont be banned or muted for doing it, even once.

    Poor wording on my hand. This is not at all what I had meant. Maybe if the definition of fake implies having to talking differently from normal because of the restrictions of words I see everyday

    I believe racism should continue to be dealt with the same level of seriousness, you have done a great job. Although, I feel that calling the word "n****" racist is wrong, UNLESS it is used in a racist way. It's a word heard in music everyday by a lot of people. It is used a lot by a lot of people. Calling it racist is ignorant, unless it is used in a racist way, which ANY single word can be.

    In what you quoted (what you were referring to in my above quote), can you tell me what in InfiniteCorner's way of dealing with the problem is better to mine? Is there a compromise we can agree on? I just feel a more personal approach to staffing would help make the server nicer (than it is already :) ).

    No this is not what I mean, sorry. I think that giving more basic freedom to the players would result in happier players. It makes sense. Let the players decide what is ok and what isn't. We are the ones playing the server. We are the ones directly affected by the rules. I do not want a lot of immature and obscene language here, and don't think it will bring it to it's "prime". I just think people like to be treated as people, not members/"generic PG". Here. I notice many new players who leave or are banned, who could have been great members. People should be the priority, this could mean change to rules to better represent what the players look for

    You believe a community should permanently banish members because of a word that can slip up? What I believe is staff should work out the issue, and not deter/ban players from the server (who are good people; not trolls).

    14 is what, grade 8? My bad, maybe more 15 then, but from 15 till 19 its all been the same for me. People don't all talk the same, everyone is different. But for the most part, people swear. People joke. It happens. It should not happen too much, but don't ban it though.

    This is great! It should be inclusive for all ages, genders, backgrounds, disabilities, and what not. Although, I believe that just about everyone on here, as well as I, share this vision. I believe most people already share these wishes, but I mean people get punished for ridiculous reasons sometimes. Think why would someone want to be part of a community where they may be banned if they say something misinterpreted? I feel an environment created by the players instead of strict rules would be much better. I believe everyone wants equality, but they also like freedom, independence. The liberating feeling of staff who will talk it out with you instead of banning. I think most can relate to this (good vs bad teacher, coach, police).

    I have been playing on this server for over 3 years, there most definitely was an increase in moderation (especially of dumb rules: I have seen someone get muted for speaking a few words of another language, I know they did not stop when staff told them to, but who did they hurt? I thought you banned other languages so they couldn't roast staff in their own language? (or something like this, this is a legitimate reason). But for simply speaking random words of a language should (morally) not be bad. (Just used "other language" as an example, not my main point. Although I feel it should be addressed too).

    Yeah man, I am in university too. I usually find my self with no time to minecraft, until lately I probably only logged on about 6 times since september. Although this is definitely a reason for server decline, it is not the ONLY reason.

    What? The poor guy was permanently banned for saying "n****", it was not even in a racist way at all. He was just talking. I'm sorry it just shocked me how I was told his words represented racism or excessive obscenity, when they clearly don't? For every action, there is an equal reaction. In this case, the reaction was players publicly refuting a ban, staff decision that was, in my personal opinion this staff decision was flawed and I think every player should have the right to comment on a ban. Banning a player affects all players on the server. Like life and death.
     
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  7. Resource

    Resource Human Resources Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    I won't lie; I'm not reading it all since it's 10 AM for me.
    But I can remind you of a little thing (apologies if it's been repeated).
    You need to remember that there are players younger than 14 on the server.

    And they might not be able to understand the two different meanings of a word when said.
    So we must in a sense always assume the worst is meant.
    We don't want to encourage certain behavior, to have parents upset at CCMC or similar.


    Although the dicipline policy is the same, staff are different.
    Whether they choose the extreme punishment or a more light-hearted one.
    Personally permabanning for a simple word is rough, I'd warn them.
    But remember that staff are regular people whom offered to keep you safe.
    A decision should (mostly always) be seen with a open mind and respected.
    From Resources point of view.

    But I might be wrong.
    I'm freely rambling.
     
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  8. JBreezeOnline

    JBreezeOnline Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    I'm no prude, and certainly can cuss like a sailor when gaming, but knowing what is appropriate for the forum you're in is critical in life as well as gaming.

    I've personally found staff to respond appropriately to issues with language in chat. There have been several instances where an inappropriate word or phrase was used in chat. In those cases, I've personally asked the individual to be mindful of their language as (to @Resource's point), there are a variety of individuals that play on the server. The staff online at the time very appropriately echoed the appropriate rules, and the offending individual typically tempers their responses.

    Both @Echophox and I (and perhaps others) have younger children who play on the server, and while I really enjoy the CCMC server and community, I would personally be inclined to leave if the standards for public chat were relaxed to accommodate a perceived "growing majority". I'd much prefer a solid decently-populated community with high standards to a massively-populated community with lower standards. If I wanted the latter, I'd read YouTube comments all day.

    "Vulgarity is no substitute for wit." -- Julian Fellowes
     
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  9. InfiniteCorners

    InfiniteCorners Commander of Blocks Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    @Dextile I feel like you've more altered the response to the actions than the rule itself. I will agree that I believe this specific instance could've been handled less severely however I understand perfectly why it unfolded the way it did. This situation was unfortunate for the player but was handled perfectly by the book. I think if there is anything to improve here it would be in the discipline policy itself. What if:

    Racist Content
    -First offense: Warning to stop immediately or they will be banned for Racism
    -Second offense: Continued use of racist content after receiving warning is considered Overt Racism
    Overt Racism
    -First offense: Permanent ban

    If it were amended to something like this it would allow for being just as harsh on the intention trolls while giving t-mods the freedom to NOT ban a player if they think it may have been an honest mistake. Would that make sense to everyone? I would have a hard time supporting much else because you have the chance to review and edit what you say before you hit enter making true chat 'accidents' a very rare thing. I even think the situation you are using to make this point is poor because the same players involved were censoring themselves when referring to one another as that word the day before, presumably because they know it's a racist word and unacceptable, and only really seemed free to use it outright while 'quoting a meme.'
     
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  10. Dextile

    Dextile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    That's for the most part true, yes. I think it could make a big difference, in many ways.

    This is great, I think this would be a great implementation.

    Yes, this would be great.

    That may be true, I don't believe I saw them saying any other words of that nature at the time however. I am more or less trying to use the idea of this situation instead of the real one. Any player should not be banned for this, unless it is REAL racism. I just believe it was used appropriately in this instance. However it may not be accepted as a normal word most places, I understand, but It should not lead to a punishment of this degree.
     
  11. Dextile

    Dextile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Why should I cater my chat to what a child can or cannot understand when I am simply, just trying to talk in chat. I am not asking for everyone and their mother to start cursing more. I just don't want to see someone harshly punished for something that can be resolved much easier and better.

    That's not healthy for anything or anyone. Banning a player wont reverse what was said in chat. Explaining to them what rule they broke/not to do it again would also resolve your above problem of their difficulty "understanding words".

    I am not asking for you to encourage that behavior at all. But why so heavily discourage something part of everyday life. It happens. I don't want more of it. We are good people here, the only people who would do this stuff for no reason, tend to be people we don't want. This system should not change much at all, just help protect people from what they say, because being banned for something you don't see as wrong, or does cause major disruption in chat, would be a bit frustrating. I know people have a responsibility to what they say, but I feel that is is a smaller deal than it is. good people can curse, why throw them away for it? (as long as it is appropriate)

    The only "relaxation" I am really trying to push for is on punishments/administration of punishments. I am in no way asking for low standards, just leniency shown for the player. If it is a mistake, or they actually did nothing wrong, then how different is staff asking them not to do it and why, opposed to an instant punishment. If you messed up at work, would you want your boss to talk to you about it, and help fix it, or fire you on the spot? I don't think the worst should be assumed here, a decrease in policing of chat would not trigger people to violate what was just banned. That's just assuming the worst of our server's player base, which should not be done as it is not true for everyone I know on here.
     
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  12. MCMCaveman

    MCMCaveman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Did you know typing in chat is faster when cursing, cussing, expletives, and self-censoring symbols are just not used in the first place?!?

    Foul language is not the norm, it is a learned bad habit that seldom has proper use in the real world, let alone a game with a vast age range.
     
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  13. Dextile

    Dextile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    You are right, foul language is not the norm, but sometimes it's used. I argue that it is not a learned bad habit, it is been around since language itself; it is language. It may hold less "proper" use in the real world, but it IS used in the real world, a lot. And since this game has such a vast age range, why is all chat catered to only specific age groups?
     
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  14. InfiniteCorners

    InfiniteCorners Commander of Blocks Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    @MCMCaveman the point I am making, like Dextile, and would like others to try to understand is that the use of racist terminology is not ALWAYS done with malicious intent. I can think of one current administrator in particular who I warned numerous times not to use phrases like "Stop being such a j*w." It was never his intention to slander the jewish people however, because of the way he spoke as common behavior, I constantly found him breaking the racism rule. Because of my patience and personal relationship with the player we were able to move past the problem and he eventually rose to the highest rank on the server. @Dextile may have worded his argument poorly and had a bad example to work from however I believe I have done a pretty good job of summarizing his true objection. Would you agree an amendment to the discipline policy like the one I outlined would be beneficial or, at the very least, would be a benign addition to regular/normal players?

    @jflory7 Would you be opposed to amending the Disciplinary Policy as I previously stated, allowing t-mods some leniency in this issue?
     
  15. CrissCrisis

    CrissCrisis Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Very well said. I honestly love reading your comments on posts like these.
     
  16. Echophox

    Echophox The GIF King

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    To me this discussion has always come down to the simple matter of respect.

    CCMC was built many years ago with foundations that have stayed true to today (in my opinion). Yeah, maybe this situation could have been handled differently, but to me it's not the core issue we're discussing.

    *Side bar* I recognize that I am TOTALLY biased because I have a 6 year old son playing on here, and I personally don't enjoy the use of language or words that are incredibly racist, even if said by the race it's used to insult**

    To me the issue here is the lack of respect for a public space.

    Dextile, you mentioned that you want to be free to talk as you would with your buddies. But I'm curious. Would you walk down a crowded street and NOT censor yourself? Would you ride a train doing this? Or the bus? Would you talk the way you're asking to be allowed to talk in any crowded public place? I work with people who are very free with their language and vulgarity, but there is always a general understanding of respect when they are in public that it is not acceptable. CCMC is one of those public spaces. You don't know who's online, you don't know how old everyone is, or what they may find offensive, so a general sense of respect is important when others are on. It's not about age. I'm a 31 year old who considers foul language a sign of ignorance, not fun or honesty (I'm an extreme, I know). It's about respecting your surroundings.

    Also, and we've discussed this in the past when I was an Admin, but, there are so many chat programs, voice and text, that can be used to be "buddies". Private spaces to talk with your buddies without restriction are plentiful.

    I don't respond this way to attack you Dextile. I actually appreciate the time you've put in to bringing up the issue and presenting it in a concise and mature manner. But I respectfully disagree.

    ...as an old disgruntled Canadian...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  17. Wonckay

    Wonckay Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Again, like I mentioned - there are two discussions here and I think Dextile already agreed the language was unacceptable, wrong, and not the kind of thing we want to encourage. We're discussing whether the punishment was appropriate now, and the fact that it wasn't used in a racist context. I suggested solutions, Infinite suggested solutions, up to staff now change whatever they might feel needs a change.
     

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